Midweek Mention... A Clockwork Orange

A Clockwork Orange

Reegs: Something of a theme this week? I think it sort of,

Sidey: yeah. It started as a theme, then it went a bit word association game. Yeah. So there's a kind of link. Sort of,

Reegs: I reckon it started with this movie though, didn't it? Because

Sidey: it absolutely did

Reegs: to talk about this. Yeah,

Sidey: It's cropped up a couple of times in top fives.

Mm-hmm. . And it's something I've wanted to nominate for a long time, and particularly because and unfortunately he's not here. Pete hasn't seen this one. So Pete, if you are listening before I've had a chance to catch you, don't listen any further until you have seen a Clockwork Orange.

Dan: Well, we all have, and and this is a, we're Stanley Kubrick.

We're all fans. We'd have all seen this before, but I watched it for the first time with my son. So that was, that

Sidey: Hang on, this was your first time.

Dan: No, I watched it his first

Sidey: time. Right, okay. Right, right, right, right,

Dan: but I watched it for the first time with him

Sidey: So when I was growing up, it had a reputation of a bit of a video nast, you know? And people said it was banned. I don't think it was ever banned. It was just withdrawn. Krick had it withdrawn.

They, they

there was some copycat violence I think

Dan: the last chapter of the book I think was withdrawn from the American version, and this is, the film is then based on that. So there is another chapter to the, the book.

Yeah

Reegs: Because in the book, I think, don't they conclude that actually it was a good idea to brain wash him all along? Basically

Dan: I'd have to revisit it, but.

Sidey: But it, it had, it had, certainly that's what it was known for when I was a teenager. It was like, Oh, you know, there's this film and it's, it's band, you know, and Oh, you can't get it.

And then, but at school one of our teachers had it a bootleg copy. So when we were doing media studies a level, he was like dishing around the class. So we were able to, to

see it. then. Yeah.

And then when you watch it, and we'll, we'll get into it, it.

Certainly from my point of view, why he is expecting it wasn't the movie that, you know, it had been built up to be certainly the the latter half of it.

Dan: right? Yeah. I don't think anyone could quite imagine what this film was gonna be, even if you've read the book just to how Kubrick has interpreted it and how he displays visually. What was on the page?

Sidey: Well, I haven't read the book, so what I would be talking about here would be exclusively like what's portrayed on screen in the film.

I don't know how it relates to the text

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: where it's 20 years since I read the book, so I'm talking about the film as well and it's yeah, where do we come in weeks?

Reegs: Oh God, I have to start and I'm the one who hasn't actually seen it for, for this

Sidey: we get first is just a huge

block of red, block of Red, then a blue, and it's, you know, comes up the title and then cubit film

and then it's a massive

close up of Alex, Lars face.

And even my miss said, Wow, that's a really iconic image. So even someone who's not particularly like film savvy or a huge enthusiast recognize that from popular culture as being,

you know,

Dan: he's got this kind of hat, the bowler hat

Sidey: he's got bowl hat, he's got the fake eyelash. And this kind of, I don't know, I have to describe the expression he has on his face, kind of.

Dan: It's an evil grin. I mean,

Sidey: wouldn't even say it's, it's like charismatic, but also devious. You know, there's something like not quite right about him. And it's, they're sitting in the corro milk bar.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: And,

Millions of band names on the war. It's Scott Melo, I think, and Veli Set and all

Dan: it, it's kind of just set in the future from whenever you watched it. And what, what strikes me? From the beginning is how well it is actually dated for a Futur esque film to be in the future. Cause it's still weird enough to You don't think so?

Sidey: I get what you mean because

Reegs: I think it's so stylized that it.

Sidey: no,

I get what both you saying, but I think because it's a dystopian future that's easier to,

That that keeps the tone for longer.

I think if you set something as like some sort of,

Reegs: it's not supposed to be very real

Sidey: Like a proper, proper view of

the future. Yeah. , this is just, everything's run down and it's, I don't know if all, a lot of his films seem to be like around cancer houses, you know, cancer states in London, which is certainly what this seemed to be.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, because in this in this bar, in this club is, you know,

Mannequins that have been twisted into tables and things. And it's just the whole decor and vibe and the lighting from the floor and the walls and everything just gives it a really weird,

Sidey: No one's talking.

Everyone's just sit, sat

Dan: within their groups

Sidey: the camera, obviously it started right close up on his face and it draws back and you see the whole place and the whole setup and this real odds kind of setup of how it looks. And he's narrating the whole story and he's saying, We stopped up here for a drink and then we're gonna go out for a bit of the old ultra violence.

And the dialogue is extremely stylized and very distinct, as in

Reegs: it has a load of made up words,

Sidey: the vocabulary is completely made. But you can still understand what he's saying even though it, they're not recognizable words. Do you know what I mean?

Dan: That's it. It's just a few words. Do you have any need for

examples

Reegs: Drs, isn't it?

Sidey: Yeah. He says, he says Vidi. Well, and the Gulliver and stuff like that. He is talking and, and things that he, the way he expresses when he talks about women, and you always know what he's talking about, even though the, the language is bizarre.

Dan: Yeah. And he's he's in a gang. He's got three other mates that as they set around this bar, they decide, well, let's go in, have some fun, let's go in let's rip the night up.

And that's, Get up to in this first

Reegs: they drink this the milk is laced with a kind of stimulant or something, isn't it?

And so they, they do that and they get all hyped up and they go out for looking for a fight that bit. The old ultra violet, this is where they go and find a tramp, right?

Sidey: see him first and there's a shot, He's under a bridge, I think. And the, the shot. It's very stylish, you know, it's, it's an angle and you see the shadows of them approaching and he's singing some shanty or other, and, and the narration's, like I, there's nothing I hate more than, you know, an old, And he describes him in the way that he speaks, but just doesn't like down and outs.

And he's there just

Dan: Yeah. Especially ones that are singing and having a good time. So he, he,

Reegs: He asks him for a cutter. Yeah. Spare me a cutter boy.

Dan: Yeah.

Some money, a few, a few coins

Reegs: then they just beat the shit out of his,

Sidey: of all, he kind of harpoons him when he is got a cane. Alex has got a cane, which he just stabs him with effectively and leans on him.

And then he just, he says, Go on, then do me in, do me in, I don't wanna live anymore. And they, they just fucking batter him. It's pretty fucking

Dan: And before heading off to what looks to be a, an old abandoned theater or something, and they come across another gang, a rival gang.

They're

Reegs: in the middle of a sort of attempted rape, aren't they?

Yeah. this

Sidey: old in, out, in, out,

Reegs: bit of the old in, out, in, out, this is some of the people accused Krick of being gratuitous, if I remember, for scenes like this, because it is, a lot of, it's, it's not. Like an authentic or real rape. It's much more like, almost like a play, right? The way that they're doing it, they're not really forcing her and stuff.

They're kind of touching her and then moving her around and all that. Anyway, she, he, they turn up with the gang and the rival gang. Then they just have an massive fight, Don't they like people getting thrown through windows

Sidey: and that, bit in particular made me laugh because it reminded me of the guy in the PTA and the Simpsons who jumps out the window.

it's, that one is a bit ludicrous. Some of the violence in this one is, Is just a bit o tt. Yeah. Like just, just like an almost unlimited amount of chairs getting smashed over people's heads.

Dan: and

Reegs: have we got the bait hoven going at this point? Have we got the

Dan: Yeah,

Reegs: going? Because

Dan: a score, a mad score over it all and it's different parts of Beethoven and, and sort of searing music cuz the, the violence.

Reaches a crescendo. There's chains coming out, and I think the

Sidey: Warren Clark always carries a chain in it. He's just whipping someone relentlessly and they hear the police sirens. So they do a runner

Dan: and it actually doesn't stop whipping until,

Sidey: No, they drag him

Dan: Stop, stop. And again, he still can't hear over the, the sound of the chains.

But they then, well they've driven out into the country and they found this house knocked on the door and pretended there was an accident.

Yeah.

And when eventually, Couple who are just living in the house. He's a writer and his wife.

Sidey: He sends his wife to the door. Yeah.

Reegs: She comes out of like some weird egg thing, doesn't she?

That

Dan: right. Yeah. There's all weird,

Reegs: stylized. And you get these slow shots as the camera moves in between showing the geography and the layout of the house. I

remember

Dan: she doesn't wanna let them in even though he is saying, Oh ma'am, look, there's an accident my friend. Just need to use your phone.

Sidey: she says, We haven't got a phone first. And then the, the, the husband shouts said, Well, what's going on? And she said, Well, there's been an accident. You know, these, these people want to use the telephone.

And he says, Well, you, you know, suppose you better let them in. And then it all goes,

Dan: goes. And then for the, the gang burst through the door and they've got like, can only be scribed as long cock noses on a

Sidey: sort of, Yeah. Exaggerated clown sort of ma I

Dan: Yeah. And they're so, they're fairly unrecognizable.

And they just cause the most horrific kind of evening

for the

Reegs: he sings singing in the rain, doesn't

Sidey: He, he does a dance and in time with the dance, while he is doing singing in the rain, he's just booting the, the fella.

Dan: Yeah.

Sidey: First of all, he starts booing him and, and he's incapacitated and they've got him pinned down and salate, they facilitate more random, and, and then they, they salate her round her mouth.

If she can't

scream and then he starts all

Dan: in her mouth, then, then,

Sidey: yeah, then they start to cut her clothes. First of all, they cut around her boobs and then they just slice the whole outfit off

Dan: still singing and

Reegs: just a pretty harrowing scene. I can still remember, like I, like I say, I hadn't watched this for the pod, but I have seen this film numerous times and I can still

Sidey: Yeah, they, they rape her in front of him.

Dan: It's, it's a really interesting one. Watch with your, your son. Why Nisha? Just going Just

Reegs: cause it goes on a while, doesn't it? And

Dan: there's loads of boobs in this and there's loads of violence, sex scenes and and violence, you know, the whole

Sidey: way So like where we are now and, and it carries on a little bit longer.

This is what I had expected about the film. It's to be violent, it to be like outrageous cuz you know, seeing a lot of films

Dan: he got banned

Sidey: where did they just withdrew it? Cubic had the, the studio withdraw it so, It. You don't certainly when I saw it, I hadn't seen a lot of films with like extended fucking rape sequences

and just g brutal gang violence, all to like classical music and with catchy fucking dog.

And, and when you're watching it as well, you are, you're noticing that the way that they dress has all been like, assimilated into like so many bands and stuff. I've done videos and stuff and taken that, that look,

and this is that's, and I knew that sort of stuff. And so they, they, they rate this woman and then you see the aftermath.

I think this is where they go back to the.

Dan: It is, yeah.

Sidey: And then it might be the, the next night they go out

Reegs: Well he goes back home, doesn't he?

And you see his ineffectual parents. And that's where you

Sidey: I was surprised how young he was cuz this is where it he's supposed to be at school. Yeah. . I thought he was,

Reegs: he has to visit from his probation

Sidey: officer, Yes.

Deloid. yes. This is that.

Reegs: And he's

a very strange

Sidey: I thought he was probably a pedophile.

Reegs: Well, at one point.

Doesn't he thump him

Sidey: He th thumbs him in the bollocks. Yeah.

Reegs: And he's, well, he's his probation officer

Dan: right. And he prob

Reegs: him.

Sidey: But they, but like you said, they have had this ding on where the woman has started to sing some Beitit Hoen and you learn that he's a huge, huge fan of,

Dan: of,

and as, as, as dim kind of goes, Oh, what's, she's a load of rubbish or whatever, He hits him with a stick.

And that, that begins the first fractions of his own group. That he, he is suddenly dim isn't just gonna take it, you know, because they, the next day,

Reegs: So you get the shot of him along the thas.

Dan: Yeah, well, the next day he said, You know, we're gonna do it differently now. Me and

Sidey: well, I took it because he lies down in his bed and he just opens a drawer and Chucks in a fucking huge roll of money. And he is already got like loads

Dan: watches and watches

Sidey: So

I took it that he was taking the cut, the main cut, and they were getting. What was left. And they weren't satisfied with that.

So once he'd started to like, get violent with the group, they were like, Well, that's it, you know, it's the final straw. We're not

Dan: They drew a line, but, and they did. But then he goes to,

assert his authority and he, he cuts one of, he pushes him, two of them in the water and he cuts one of them's hand, and then he sits them down at the bar and he says, Right all back to the beginning again, aren't we?

Now we're gonna do things my way. Now what was your idea about, you know, a, a plan that you've got and he's heard, one of the guys has heard about another house in the country that's going to be you know, unprotected and there's gonna be money inside and, and all the rest of it. So they think, Let's go and do this housing.

Reegs: Isn't there?

Have we missed, or have I gone to soon on a scene where he takes two women back to his house and it's like the William Tell Overture

Dan: Yeah, no, you're, you're right.

Reegs: And he like, he like Shas one and then she gets dressed and then he carries on with the other one. And then he sort of finishes with her as she starts getting dressed and he undresses the other one.

Sidey: Yeah, And that was all improvised, was it? Yeah. So hang on,

Dan: Yeah. No, that you're right. That that's the scene He's in between robberies, I think, and he meets two girls at what appears to be like

Reegs: well, there's a 2001, there's a 2001 thing. Yeah.

Dan: there's, there's a record.

Kind of vinyl collection that these two beautiful young girls are, are looking for. And he's all dressed up all dapper. It must have just been after the first robbery. And he's spent money on clothes and things and he's, he's looking a real dandy and he goes to chat these two girls up and then he go back to, to the, his place.

And it is a fantastic scene where they just, yeah.

Sidey: So Cubic

Reegs: all Benny Hill

Sidey: And he wasn't gonna shout, cut until it was over.

So when they started getting dressed, Malcolm Dow went over, undressed him again, and they carried on. And that was all just like off the cuff and singing in the rain. That was improvised as well. Was it?

Reegs: it? Because it becomes so per it's integral to the story.

Sidey: when you, he said just do a, do a song or do like, do something to make it seem even more.

Dan: jolly for

Reegs: But it seems so

Sidey: But when like, I just associate cubic with being a fucking control freak and making people do things a million times if he's happy. But here he's just letting someone

basically like, go for it. And he is, he's happy with it, you know? And it fucking turned out pretty well. This happens.

So yeah, they have that all. But yeah, the, the story really goes into overdrive when they go to this. It's like a country estate

spa. Health

Dan: It's like a, Yeah. Health resort

Sidey: there's a lady doing yoga. She's doing all this kind of stretching and there's obscene fucking artwork everywhere. There just seems to be all over the fucking place in his

Reegs: case.

Oh, she's got a giant, Well,

Sidey: he kills there with the

giant fallas.

Reegs: Yeah,

that's right. She's

Sidey: got all this artwork on the walls and it's bizarre. Anyway, the door is locked, but Alex climbs in a window and it's just him in the house and he just fucking tortures her in Tormentor. She phones the.

And eventually you've got this point of view shot where he's like attacking over this huge dick.

And then he smashes her in the face with it and it goes into like a cartoon like art, you know, painting sort of thing of a scream. While she, and that's her dying, I think he doesn't think that he's killed her, He just thinks but there's more sirens.

because

she has phone. She, you know, we've

seen her on phone. She has, she has phone him and she said, Oh, I don't think it's anything. Cause he does the same trick about there's been an accident. And she's like, Mm, I dunno. So she calls the police and they do show up, but it's too late for her. But his friends, when he gets that side, they, it's dim smashes a milk bottle on his head.

right.

And it sort of temporarily blinds him. He's just completely out of it. And he's arrested and, and he's in fucking shit street because he's, we know, cuz we've already seen. Like juvenile. Yeah. Parole officer type person. That he's got, he's had previous, he's been in trouble before. He's on

Dan: he's up shit creek now.

Sidey: on Lance Last Chance Lu. And he just turns, as it turns out, he's murdered someone. So we, we get an interrogation scene at the police station where they don't go light on him. Yeah. They fucking beat the shit out and,

Reegs: And he goes down.

Dan: Yeah.

Sidey: That's it. It just, then it cuts and he's in prison.

Reegs: Are you, I remember you get the prison induction scene and you've got this sort of, Very officious police guy, just warden, just screaming at him, you know what he needs to do.

Stand behind the line and

Dan: the line. Gotta

Reegs: putting the stuff out your pocket. You will address me as sir.

Sidey: chucks something down on the counter. He's like, Be that

Reegs: yeah.

Sidey: He just, to me, I was like, Okay, this is the precursor to female jacket. Yeah.

It's a drill sergeant all over.

Dan: Well, it there, and like a lot of Kubrick's films, there are connections in this film or, or nods to others 2001 being shown in, in one of the records. I think there's some other kind of links as well that you can, you can find. But it, it was interesting you said earlier about him giving the actor like license here because these actors.

The most well-known that he's ever worked with. I dunno what this guy had done.

Sidey: Malcolm McDowell.

Dan: Much after this, but I mean, looking at the, the kind

Sidey: can't remember if, if was the other one I'd seen in his I think that was before, but I'm only saying X as black and white.

Right. That's really good as well. But yeah, I don't know. I, I wouldn't know how to gauge like how much of a star he was, but it doesn't often necessarily pick like the huge star.

Dan: No, but he has worked with people and, and probably had a lot more control on their input into the script than he appeared to on this one. Giving them a free reign to do, you know, songs differently or, or whatever it was.

So, yeah. Interesting for me. And now that we're, he's gone into prison, Alex is he tries to, Get in with the chaperone not the chaperone. The

Reegs: the chap. He's

Sidey: Well, it cuts, it cuts somewhere. We're basically two years down the line.

Yeah. He's up on stage and there's a, as an inmate just like keep blowing kisses at him and he's really horrible. You know, He's like, this is it. The Sisters of Mercy and Shore

Dan: Yeah Yeah that's right. He's in the hole and he's doing, helping the, the chaplain with his

Sidey: He's winding the hymn thing on the overhead projector. Remember them

Dan: And and he's trying to, Pretend that he's, he's found God so he can get out of

Sidey: You see his fantasy about, he's like whipping Jesus as

Reegs: he

Sidey: the cross up the hill and then he's,

Reegs: Isn't he being like fed grapes

Sidey: or

something? He's in a top five.

He's in a, I wouldn't say it's an A as such, but he's just lying there. There's these three concubines like just feeding him and their top

Dan: Feeding him and, and that's right. Yeah. When he's reading the Bible, he's thinking that he's the centurian whipping Jesus. Bringing the cross to, to

Sidey: Yeah.

And you get but

Reegs: That level of blast for me, I, I would imagine is part of the reason it had the such a big reputation because, you know, back in the day that would've been,

Dan: Yeah

Reegs: now Mel Gibson's done it, it's fine. But

Dan: no, you're right. That that would've caused a bit of upset back in the day.

Reegs: particularly as how over and over and over and over again.

Kubrick shows us how, you know, violence and sex are.

Sidey: Yeah.

Reegs: In his mind. So, you know, showing him being violent and seeing him take some sort of pleasure out of it, that it's both the pleasure of violence and, and a sexual pleasure as well.

Dan: Well, Alex gets wind of a new revolutionary technique that is out there and wants to be put up for trial on it. And this technique called the, what was it

Reegs: Luda. Vico

Dan: it's gonna totally make him feel sick as a dog.

Sidey: Well, he doesn't know that. It's just, it'll commute his sentence to he'll be out in two

Dan: E. Exactly. He doesn't know any of this. He just knows there's a treatment that means he could be out in two weeks and he wants it and he gets it.

Reegs: Well, doesn't the the visiting minister comes along, who he is that right? He wants to kind of, It's his idea. It's, it's the, it's the government's big notion is to, to reform criminals with this new technology

Dan: Prisons are overfilling.

Sidey: they're doing a A parade. They all the, the inmates are in the yard and the, the ministers walking past, it's been given a tour of the facility and Alex Blurt, he's just saying, Oh, these, these guys, they, they're justum, they, they, they enjoy it.

You know, these, there's,

Dan: you're absolutely right, sir.

Yeah

Sidey: like You can't

reform these people. They're just like ver they just, they enjoy it. They need this kind of like lev and. And yeah, he blurts out something and greets with him. And the, the warden obviously goes fucking nuts scripts in his face, but he, you know, he makes himself known and, and that's how he becomes the, the test case for this treatment,

Dan: And after he's accepted onto the program, he's taken out and he's given a nice bed and a nice meal, and a nurse comes to sit

Sidey: Well, the prison officers are like dedicated. They really don't want him to

1. They're like fucking, he's gonna get away, you know? Lord, he's a

Dan: that. That's right.

Sidey: he is a killer.

Dan: and, and, and none of them believe that he's reformed or anything. And, and he definitely hasn't. And they.

Sort of being really sure because once he goes into the doctors, they're a little more lax on it, aren't they? They're a little Are you gonna take the prisoner? Yes.

I'm coming over now. And eventually they hand over and he's explained that he's just gotta watch some videos.

Sidey: Just gonna show you something. Give a couple of injections. You're gonna watch a few videos, two weeks of it. After that, you'll be freed, you'll be free to go. You won't have these urges, you'll be free to

Dan: So the first session sees him sat right at the front of the cinema.

Reegs: In a straight jacket.

Dan: in a straight jacket with eye clamps like opening his eyelids up.

Sidey: we see them putting him in. And I think if.

Even if you haven't seen this film, you will have seen an image of this. You must have done. I mean if you watch the symptoms you've seen sat, this little helper has it.

It's just for me, this is like ingrained in like pop culture. Maybe it's not, maybe it's just

Reegs: maybe No, it is. Absolutely.

Sidey: it's, absolutely

Dan: It is this and the beginning, as you say, the face. And so he's forced with eye drops to keep his eyes from drying up and,

Sidey: that's a real doctor

Dan: and Yeah. I I, I'm sure it looked like he's a pool of, of you

Sidey: I mean, they did, they did actually like, do like horrendous damage to his eyes, scratched his cornea. They temporarily blinded him in one eye. I mean, it was fucking savage.

Dan: and and it looks great. So worth it. But he's put through this ordeal that after day one he really not looking forward to doing two sessions of the same.

The,

Reegs: well, he's shown what's he shown? He's shown a fight, like quite a vicious fight of guy getting beaten up. And

Sidey: He likes that at first.

Reegs: And they're playing. Beethoven's

Dan: Yeah

Sidey: when it starts to really, I think that might even be the second

session.

Dan: It's only, it's only the second day and he's really, you know, the, the treatment's starting to,

Reegs: we only see a couple of the

Dan: treatments and

Sidey: he's really screaming and it's really harrowing.

He's being effectively tortured into, you know, this brainwashing technique of just this imagery,

this conditions relentless conditioning and his eyes. It cannot, I mean, that. We obviously must have, you must have tried to not blink for a certain amount of time. It's fucking agony. And he's got his eyes clamped open for fucking

Dan: a and with a doctor, just giving him drops every sort of five or six seconds. So, so he can continue watching eventually. Anyway, the two weeks are, are done, must be about two weeks later. And he's in front then of a, another kind of board of people in an assembly hallways.

There's a little stage and he's. Being told in front of everyone that he's been cured,

Sidey: They bring out a fella to humiliate him and just bully him and rela and beat him.

Dan: Make him lick his

boots

Sidey: he cannot fight back.

He

Reegs: as he feels any form of like aggression or violence in him.

He is physically sick. Yeah. Yeah. Basically,

Sidey: and the guy is, Yeah. And the guy says, Right.

Lick my boat. And he, you see him do it and he says, You're humble narrator. You know, And he talks like, he's like, really put upon, and he, he

Dan: Well, that's right. The whole way through

Sidey: here. And then the guy finishes, he, he does this bow to the audience, like he's put on this great performance. That's what's really funny.

And then they bring out a topless scale who, I have to say like Hall of fame boobs on this lady. Like, absolutely

Dan: there's loads of boobs in

Sidey: There are. And he goes to, he's on his knees and he, he reaches up to gro the aforementioned boobs. And again, he's like, retching. He's like, I think he even says like he wants to kill himself or

Dan: he can't he can't bring

Sidey: cannot do it.

Dan: to touch him.

He, he gets really close,

Reegs: so he's cured.

Dan: he, he falls down and as I say, he's narrating this the whole way through this film. He, his, it is his narration talking about himself in.

Like the

Sidey: He

keeps talking like we should be like feeling really sorry for him because you are, you are

Dan: again, something that's really clever in this film because there's so many horrible acts or scenes and things, but it's alongside some, you know, Beethoven or, or something really kind of clever and nice, that stuff that you really like along with the most horrifying stuff.

So it just leaves you confused all

Sidey: ridiculously charismatic, I think. Yeah. And that's the, that's the, the juxtaposition of like all the appalling stuff that he does,

all and the

rest of It and the music, you know, And it's like, oh, what a guy who likes the classics, but he is also a fucking murdering rapist thug.

Reegs: But then also he's had all these horrendous atrocities because it's gonna get worse for poor Alex as well.

Sidey: Well he's, it's, it's in the press, it's, it's put out there that we've, you know, the, they're trying to make a big song of dance about we've got this treatment for people now, so, you know, society will benefit because we can stop all this

violence. and this

is so everyone out there knows about him. He's had this treatment, he goes home and his parents have let out his.

And the guy is like, cause him a prick for being horrible to his parents and he goes to hit him.

Can't.

Reegs: All his mom does in this whole movie is Cry, isn't it? That's

Sidey: her get up. Her threads in this are

Reegs: Yeah.

She's got purple hair, isn't she? At one point?

Dan: And like red leather PVC or

Sidey: the old man is the murderer from The Shining, isn't it?

Yeah.

Dan: Well, they're Butler kind of guy. yeah, yeah.

Sidey: Had to correct his

doors. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah, it's

Reegs: yeah, so, and then he goes for a walk down by the Thas and cuz he's got nowhere to go. And I think he briefly contemplates suicide.

He's looking off a,

Sidey: he

says, I'm you. What was I used to do? I was homeless and jobless with no prospects and nowhere to go.

Reegs: And then you realize he's actually at the entrance to the same tunnel that he met the

Sidey: meets the homeless.

Reegs: homeless. And he meets the homeless guy. Yeah. And he drags him back. And then these, all these old men just beat the shit out of him.

Sidey: Yeah.

Dan: the, the police come to help him. And it turns out that they're his old bodies who

Reegs: in, in a move, similar to kind of what the tos are doing. Like lay off 25,000 police, but then just employ 20,000 more. So you can tell people we're adding 20,000. Please. So they've just, now, they've opened up the floodgates to let police be anybody, and it's their two fucking dickhead gang member mates, ding.

And the other one,

Dan: now they've got this new treatment, they can afford to save money on police because, well, they'll just throw anyone in prison and, and sort 'em out.

But the, these two guys, and its dim and

Sidey: other one who was trying to sort of take

over the, other one.

I forget his name, but

Dan: And they take him out into the country. They drag him into a field where there's a, a bar filled with water and they,

Sidey: they try fucking savage.

Dan: I thought they had drowned him. I thought they

Sidey: he was

Reegs: it goes on for a long time, this

Dan: long time. And he, he gets left there, gets abandoned by them, and, and they head off and he goes it starts raining heavy and everything and he goes to the nearest house,

Reegs: It's got a big sign outside saying home,

Dan: Which turns out to be the house that he went to with the artist and the, and the woman where he, you know, sung this song.

And

Reegs: singing in

Dan: it was this really dark kind of humor thing cuz it was quite funny. You know, you see this guy singing, he cuts off boobs around like two circles and it's, you know, crazy kind of stuff. And then he's back here at this house and.

Sidey: he's got a,

Living Weightlifter guy

Reegs: Yeah It looks like it's sort of halfway between Mike Myers and Arnold Schwartzenegger.

And he's wearing these like tiny orange hot pants.

Dan: Yeah.

Sidey: we don't see him at first. We just see the same, the author,

the writer

Dan: in a wheelchair

Sidey: and the, and the doorbell goes and he's like, Looks over.

He's like, Who's that? And you, and you think, Oh, is the wife then? No, she's dead, She's died. And it's just some guy doing weights and you're like, What the

fuck?

Dan: Cole, His kind

Reegs: Is that what his name

Dan: Yeah, I think so. And he is

Sidey: His manser.

Dan: Yeah. His maner his therapist

Sidey: him

Reegs: Yeah, he him up. He's carrying him like a baby, isn't he?

Dan: Well, he carries him in the chair at points and he just, he just walks around.

Sidey: He doesn't recognize him at

Dan: No.

Cuz he did have the mask and he says this, I don't think they'll recognize me, but could you lead and imagine it?

Reegs: but it's when he, his house, he

Sidey: a bath and he sings Singing In the Rain. Yeah.

And he pulls some crazy. Expression. The, the writer,

he goes Crazy. It was all over the top. Kind of lost me this bit of the

Dan: Well the, you, you learn a little bit that the wife has died not directly due to that evening, but indirectly due to that evening. It just sent her on a path of destruction. Eventually she died. And he's, he's mad about this, like, and he realizes that's the guy, but then

Sidey: he spills the beans about everything he says, I can't, you know, The worst thing about it now is that I can't enjoy a bit of the odd nwi van.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah.

Sidey: So, you know what's coming

Dan: He, he's, he in the, the author invites a couple of friends around who, who's su part of a political party, I guess the, the opposition to the government who want to then go and use Alex as the, Well, I wanna fuck him up.

They wanna make sure it's a complete failure. This whole, this whole thing. They want him to cause a, do another crime or, or what eventually happens is they,

Make him listen to Ludwick. And he froze himself out of a window. And he's in hospital because you think he's gonna be dead, but he actually lives

Sidey: in one

Reegs: you get a POV shot, like, like they've chucked the camera out the window, don't

Sidey: they did chuck the camera. So they built this perspex housing for the camera and you know, it's a 71.

Yeah. So it

Reegs: if they did actually

Sidey: And they

just chucked the camera out until they got it, you know, like Cubic would do until they got it to.

As they want it to look. And, but apparently they were well impressed that this camera stood up to the fucking thrashing it got,

Reegs: It's very effective because I think it does a single loop, doesn't it? As it hits like the sort of fall that you could imagine a weight would take from that.

Sidey: Now you just chuck a GoPro out

Dan: and Yeah.

Sidey: Big rig back in

them days. Yeah.

Dan: And so you find Alex now back in the hospital absolutely bandaged up. Mom and dad have popped in and said, Look, the papers seem to.

They, they treated you harshly, son. And, you know, maybe we didn't do as much and Alex is suddenly getting all this sympathy because

Sidey: well, it's all in the press.

He saying, This is just fucking unethical. It's just horrendous.

Dan: This poor murderer has been you know, has been really treated badly. That kind of thing, but the, the ethics of how they've.

Dealt with crime and punishment, I guess is, is all called into question and you meet. Then again, the original government guy whose idea it was the warden who chose him and he's greasing up to him in the hospital bed. I mean, he's feeding him isn't he? At one

point

Reegs: he's got that cocky little look on his face. Isn't he's like opening his mouth to be fed.

Sidey: Yeah.

Dan: you'll feed me, Feed me. Then I think we could be friends. Alex, you and I, you know, we could get you a nice job with good pay. How much pay, You know, he's, he's still trying to feather his own nest. But eventually they make it a deal. The, the presser rolled out.

He takes a photograph and just as the, the,

Sidey: well they're bring in a, they're bring in a stereo to play. A bit of

beov him

Dan: Bit of Beethoven, he can listen to that

Sidey: He doesn't have the aversion anymore.

Dan: In fact, what happens is that he dreams. One last bear of tits is, is gonna be thrown at us. And there's two lines of people and he sees, I dunno if it's him when this woman, they're fucking, but he doesn't feel ill anymore.

He's listening to, to bait Hoen, and he's cured.

Says

Sidey: I, I was cured. All right, anything. Oh, another wave of fucking sexual violence is is coming. Yeah. And that's the end. It cuts back to the big blue block of color thing

and the end,

Dan: And that's it. I mean, absolute nothing to think about. Take away from this . It's one of those films that, So first impressions for my son, he is just going, God, that's weird, isn't it?

I said, Yeah. Yeah. So it is, it is a strange film, but it's, it's those themes. He's 16.

Sidey: That was probably so A level, so I'd have been probably 16,

17 I

Dan: Yeah, he, he said it'd been on his bucket list for a little while that he wanted, see this one and a few others. And,

and so just talking about him after is about the themes of it all, you know, the right and wrong and free will and, and those kind of things.

And what he made of it as well. And it was interesting.

Reegs: Yeah, I, I watched this probably when I was 16 or 17 as well, but I watched it with basically a bunch of edge lords and it was mostly about how violent, how violent it was and tits and

Sidey: funny when he raped that

Reegs: A little bit, Yeah, a lot of that sort of thing going on. But I saw her a few times then I think. And but it later you come to properly, I think pick.

The theme. It's a very unpleasant movie.

Dan: It is, it is really unpleasant. You know, it's not a, a movie that you would. You know that you'll, you'll laugh a lot out, but there are funny bits in it, There's very dark humor.

As I said, the it's

what he makes you feel like as bad as he's doing to, you know, act to these women and, and this guy on the floor.

Sidey: when he gets that gap, particular one that's really fucking gruesome because he cuts, you know, it's prolonged scene of basically torture where he's cutting up a, you know exactly what's

Dan: the joker.

Sidey: said it, he cuts up the guy's. Prone on the floor, been pinned out, and he gets right in his face and we, and it becomes a point of view shot of the guy.

And he says, Vidi, Well, my brother vi well, yes. And then he fucking rapes her. And that sort of language became, you know, used in popular culture that that was sort of taken on. Like, but it's a fucking ra. Like, you know

Dan: I was just thinking like the Joker, you know, he ledgers kind of, I mean the, the influence from this film and Obviously Kubrick is, has gone on and influenced lots of people with lots of difference. But this is iconic, isn't it? It's one of those films you have to have seen and I think that's why it was on my boys' list cuz he wanted to say, Well, you know, everybody talks about this film.

Sidey: I wonder What you know, what is the anchored like message of the film that. Everything's fucked.

Like youth and their fucking behavior, you know these gangs, that's obviously wrong, but there's not effectively nothing that

Reegs: state inter interventionism is wrong.

Sidey: system doesn't work. We can't

Reegs: That's what I mean. It's

Dan: free

Reegs: is a

Dan: morality though. You know, because not everybody's doing

Sidey: he's a moral and the government treatment that they apply as immoral is, is unethical

Reegs: and he just becomes this like porn in this great, good, you know, greater fight

Dan: Parents don't care enough to

Reegs: Yeah, it's, I, I actually, the, the, I didn't have a lot of time for, for pod stuff this week and the one night that I could have watched this, I was just a bit like,

Sidey: don't fancy that

Reegs: I dunno, but it was good fun to talk about because it's such a fucking good movie and the themes are still really strong.

So, I dunno what year this was, but 72. So, and you can still talk about everything that's in it

Dan: He's a brilliant anti hero, isn't he? Alex? He's

Sidey: Yeah. I mean, the way it was been absorbed into popular culture is, is sort of worrying because he's not good guy.

Do you know what I mean? But stylistically, it's so, so strong.

Dan: Yeah, I mean it's a political film and it still kind of holds up, you know, I mean it's still got relevance today and when you make a film like that sort of 50 years ago or whatever it is, then yeah, it's quite incredible.

That is still relevant today.

Reegs: He's all right. That Kubrick

Dan: He's not bad.

Sidey: It's good. I like the way he just does like a genre moves on, like fucking nails it and onto the next, but a bit of balance. We do get some dick, not just his